577
edits
Stomp on the Thwomp: Difference between revisions
AUTOMATED : replace hardcoded rta guide for template
Silverbach (talk | contribs) (Bold) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit |
(AUTOMATED : replace hardcoded rta guide for template) |
||
| (12 intermediate revisions by 10 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{speedrun_guides}} | |||
{{star_infobox | {{star_infobox | ||
|image=SotT.png | |image=SotT.png | ||
|course=Tick Tock Clock | |course=Tick Tock Clock | ||
|height=249 | |height=249 | ||
|tas= | |tas=16.77 | ||
|tas_link=[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ | |tas_link=[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16bJ-BwZ6igoIKjTu-xQkh1edS7M4JQj9FpWGT0Vsz1I/edit#gid=2040638581 <nowiki>"Super Mario 64 - TAS Times v2" Document, Achieved by Xander, Missing file</nowiki>] | ||
|rta=21.58 | |rta=21.58 | ||
|rta_link=[https://youtu.be/5FwUIOhQvO0 "Super Mario 64 - Stomp On The Thwomp 21"58" by Xiah] | |rta_link=[https://youtu.be/5FwUIOhQvO0 "Super Mario 64 - Stomp On The Thwomp 21"58" by Xiah] | ||
|abc= | |abc=0 | ||
|abc_link=[https:// | |abc_link=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98EpPsaAF_k "TTC Stomp on the Thwomp 0x A Presses"] | ||
|abz= 15 | |abz= 15 | ||
|abz_link=[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lAf4RDjKIbpApFQUrjZe7K2tVtAu0FDY_SgaJkYAvhQ/ "SM64 ABZ Button Challenge PAL" Document] | |abz_link=[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lAf4RDjKIbpApFQUrjZe7K2tVtAu0FDY_SgaJkYAvhQ/ "SM64 ABZ Button Challenge PAL" Document] | ||
}} | }} | ||
'''Stomp on the Thwomp''', or '''SotT''' for short, is the fourth mission of [[Tick Tock Clock]]. The star requires navigation through the entirety of the mainly vertical clock to reach the | '''Stomp on the Thwomp''', or '''SotT''' for short, is the fourth mission of [[Tick Tock Clock]]. The star requires navigation through the entirety of the mainly vertical clock to reach the Thwomp at the top. Due to the length of the star and the distance it covers, it is usually combined with the 100 coin star in speedrunner's routes. | ||
This star is particularly difficult in certain challenges, such as the [[A Button Challenge]] and [[ABZ Button Challenge]]. The massive vertical climb takes many seemingly unavoidable presses to scale, and often involves maximizing the value out of every press used. | This star is particularly difficult in certain challenges, such as the [[A Button Challenge]] and [[ABZ Button Challenge]]. The massive vertical climb takes many seemingly unavoidable presses to scale, and often involves maximizing the value out of every press used. | ||
==TAS WR History== | ==TAS WR History== | ||
In terms of TAS records for SotT, most optimization has gone into SotT + 100 coin star (all four 120 TASes combine the two stars). Some TASers still took the time to claim the IL record, however, and it has resulted in a fairly decent point for a non-full game star. Sadly, both the current WR and previous WR have been lost due to copyright claims on nicovideos by Nintendo and the user deleting their account on YouTube. | In terms of TAS records for SotT, most optimization has gone into SotT + 100 coin star (all four 120 TASes combine the two stars). Some TASers still took the time to claim the IL record, however, and it has resulted in a fairly decent point for a non-full game star. Sadly, both the current WR and previous WR have been lost due to copyright claims on nicovideos by Nintendo and the user deleting their account on YouTube. | ||
{{TAS_History}} | {{TAS_History}} | ||
==TAS Strategy== | ==TAS Strategy== | ||
''This is mainly describing Nahoc's 18.87 TAS since the two improvements since have been lost.'' | ''This is mainly describing Nahoc's 18.87 TAS since the two improvements since have been lost.'' | ||
| Line 30: | Line 30: | ||
The improvements to this route supposedly came in the form of small improvements (which happens in the case of most time saves) and better RNG. RNG is logical as this route has mario interacting with two [[treadmill|treadmills]], a pendulum, the [[thwomp]], and a very specific wall kick of a cog. | The improvements to this route supposedly came in the form of small improvements (which happens in the case of most time saves) and better RNG. RNG is logical as this route has mario interacting with two [[treadmill|treadmills]], a pendulum, the [[thwomp]], and a very specific wall kick of a cog. | ||
==ABC WR History== | ==ABC WR History== | ||
Stomp on the Thwomp has been known as a difficult star for the A button challenge for a long time, and for this reason it is often excluded from early lists. bobmario511 was the first known person to route and perform a TAS for the star, producing 4 over a period of one month. Having gotten the count to 15 presses, bobmario511 was fairly certain the route was maxed, and felt comfortable with the TAS. | Stomp on the Thwomp has been known as a difficult star for the A button challenge for a long time, and for this reason it is often excluded from early lists. bobmario511 was the first known person to route and perform a TAS for the star, producing 4 over a period of one month. Having gotten the count to 15 presses, bobmario511 was fairly certain the route was maxed, and felt comfortable with the TAS. | ||
Since this point, pannenkoek2012 and the rest of the ABC team have worked to improve this star, and have saved 13 A Presses. Stomp on the Thwomp in particular takes a lot of creative routing and problem solving, and combining these in a creative way to save A presses. In general, the routing usually focuses on efficient usage the two available bob-ombs, their two coins, the one-time pre-set HOLP, and the 100 coin star for a [[Star Dance Clip]] (SDC). | Since this point, pannenkoek2012 and the rest of the ABC team have worked to improve this star, and have saved 13 A Presses. Stomp on the Thwomp in particular takes a lot of creative routing and problem solving, and combining these in a creative way to save A presses. In general, the routing usually focuses on efficient usage the two available bob-ombs, their two coins, the one-time pre-set HOLP, and the 100 coin star for a [[Star Dance Clip]] (SDC). | ||
{{ABC_History}} | {{ABC_History}} | ||
==Current ABC Route== | ==Current ABC Route== | ||
''Because of the nature of TTC and how it's nearly a completely different course depending on the clock setting, the route has continually changed different settings. The current route is on the '''random''' setting.'' | ''Because of the nature of TTC and how it's nearly a completely different course depending on the clock setting, the route has continually changed different settings. The current route is on the '''random''' setting.'' | ||
Prior to even entering TTC, a [[HOLP]] is set | Prior to even entering TTC, a [[HOLP]] is set in [[BitS]] that will later be utilized near the [[Pendulum Box|pendulum box]] [[Pedro Spot]]. | ||
Getting to the second level of the clock (by the first clock hand) cannot be done going through the main pathway without pressing A. This is avoided by using the [[spinner]]s, instead. So with this in mind, the current route goes up these spinners every time it needs to go up to the second level. | Getting to the second level of the clock (by the first clock hand) cannot be done going through the main pathway without pressing A. This is avoided by using the [[spinner]]s, instead. So with this in mind, the current route goes up these spinners every time it needs to go up to the second level. | ||
| Line 49: | Line 46: | ||
Once all 64 coins have been cloned, another clone must be used to place a [[fire]] clone before the ledge leading to the cogs. A single SDC is not enough height to reach the ledge, but a fire burn into a SDC is. To avoid immediately burning on the fire clone, it is placed carefully using the hand to push Mario out of the way.<ref>[https://youtu.be/upzprhsB9D0 "TTC To Cogs 0x Using 1 Fire Clone" by pannenkoek2012]</ref> With the fire clone set, the ! block containing three coins above the second is broken, and one of the coins is cloned. This allows the 100 coin star to be placed in a spot that allows the SDC without needing a bob-omb to still have its coin. At this point, the set-up is complete and Mario can now burn and clip up to the area near the cogs. | Once all 64 coins have been cloned, another clone must be used to place a [[fire]] clone before the ledge leading to the cogs. A single SDC is not enough height to reach the ledge, but a fire burn into a SDC is. To avoid immediately burning on the fire clone, it is placed carefully using the hand to push Mario out of the way.<ref>[https://youtu.be/upzprhsB9D0 "TTC To Cogs 0x Using 1 Fire Clone" by pannenkoek2012]</ref> With the fire clone set, the ! block containing three coins above the second is broken, and one of the coins is cloned. This allows the 100 coin star to be placed in a spot that allows the SDC without needing a bob-omb to still have its coin. At this point, the set-up is complete and Mario can now burn and clip up to the area near the cogs. | ||
[[File:Pendulum Box Pedro Spot.png|300px|thumb|right|The pendulum box pedro spot.]] | [[File:Pendulum Box Pedro Spot.png|300px|thumb|right|The pendulum box pedro spot.]] | ||
Now with access to the cogs, Mario can simply dive recover until he reaches the top. At this point, a special maneuver termed " | Now with access to the cogs, Mario can simply dive recover until he reaches the top. At this point, a special maneuver termed "[[Cog Misalignment|Cog Misa]]" is utilized. Mario conserve vertical speed onto the highest cog using one of the cog's [[misalignment]]s, allowing him to reach the walkway to [[Roll into the Cage]] (which normally is too high to reach without an A press). This misalignment was thought to be impossible, as setting the cog's (very slightly) longest edge face as close to mario as possible, while still facing away from the origin to keep its misalignment open, was not enough for Mario to avoid the protruding wall hitboxes in the way of reaching the misalignment. However, if the cog was turned even closer towards mario 1 frame before he reaches the misalignment, where maximum cog spinning speed can let the cog barely reach the point when the misalignment opens up, Mario can dive recover at a sharper angle, and use the misalignmentless wall hitbox to get pushed rightwards by the spinning cog, so on the next frame, when the cog's misalignment finally opens, Mario can enter the misalignment with his better facing angle and extreme leftwards straining. <ref name="misa">[https://youtu.be/7eK2yszTfyA "Cog Misalignment (A press save SOON!)" by DeRockProject & the Attack of the Really Long Channel Name]</ref> This maneuver allows Mario to get past the cogs without any presses, something that required a bob-omb and the HOLP prior to this maneuver. | ||
Near Roll into the Cage, Mario now uses [[HSG|hyperspeed grinding]] to build up speed in the "Sidney Spot".<ref>[https://youtu.be/3I7y6zYEOGU "Interesting TTC Hyperspeed Spot" by Sidney600SM64]</ref> This essentially works by repeatably falling and landing, which can gain speed over time via air movement. Once Mario has enough speed, he can jump out of the spot, converting his horizontal speed to vertical speed, allowing him to land in the area near the [[The Pit and the Pendulums]] star. This is the first A press. | Near Roll into the Cage, Mario now uses [[HSG|hyperspeed grinding]] to build up speed in the "Sidney Spot".<ref>[https://youtu.be/3I7y6zYEOGU "Interesting TTC Hyperspeed Spot" by Sidney600SM64]</ref> This essentially works by repeatably falling and landing, which can gain speed over time via air movement. Once Mario has enough speed, he can jump out of the spot, converting his horizontal speed to vertical speed, allowing him to land in the area near the [[The Pit and the Pendulums]] star. This is the first A press. | ||
| Line 58: | Line 55: | ||
Once on the hand, the hand ticks counter clockwise to the right side of the treadmill. This is a fairly uncommon occurrence- the hand ticks clockwise three times as often as counter clockwise, and has ticks three times as large. This rare situation is why the RNG manipulation on the pendulum box was important. Once the hand is near the [[treadmill]], Mario punches off the hand and lands on the [[Thwomp]]. From here, grabbing the star only requires a dive recover. | Once on the hand, the hand ticks counter clockwise to the right side of the treadmill. This is a fairly uncommon occurrence- the hand ticks clockwise three times as often as counter clockwise, and has ticks three times as large. This rare situation is why the RNG manipulation on the pendulum box was important. Once the hand is near the [[treadmill]], Mario punches off the hand and lands on the [[Thwomp]]. From here, grabbing the star only requires a dive recover. | ||
== Obsoleted Still Setting Route == | == Obsoleted Still Setting Route == | ||
[[File:Still Cog Pedro Spot.png|300px|thumb|right|The pedro spot and angle used for the x5 still method.]] | [[File:Still Cog Pedro Spot.png|300px|thumb|right|The pedro spot and angle used for the x5 still method.]] | ||
Prior to even entering TTC, a [[HOLP]] is set | Prior to even entering TTC, a [[HOLP]] is set in [[TTM]]. After entering the course, the first thing done is to instant release a bob-omb at the HOLP which will later be utilized in the cog area of the clock. | ||
Gaining height on the still setting is harder than on the moving settings, primarily due to being unable to go up the spinner side and instead having to go up the rotating block main pathway. Getting past the first rotating cube requires a jump dive, this is the first A press. Clearing the next set of rotating blocks requires a well placed double jump into triple jump dive combo. The dive lands on the moving bar so Mario can dive recover onto the second level. These are the second and third A presses. | Gaining height on the still setting is harder than on the moving settings, primarily due to being unable to go up the spinner side and instead having to go up the rotating block main pathway. Getting past the first rotating cube requires a jump dive, this is the first A press. Clearing the next set of rotating blocks requires a well placed double jump into triple jump dive combo. The dive lands on the moving bar so Mario can dive recover onto the second level. These are the second and third A presses. | ||
| Line 68: | Line 64: | ||
Finally at the cogs, Mario can use the bob-omb to push himself into the cog pedro spot with a precise location and angle. After building up enough speed, Mario jump dives straight to the top of the thwomp, from where he can dive recover into the star. The jump to the thwomp is the fifth A press. | Finally at the cogs, Mario can use the bob-omb to push himself into the cog pedro spot with a precise location and angle. After building up enough speed, Mario jump dives straight to the top of the thwomp, from where he can dive recover into the star. The jump to the thwomp is the fifth A press. | ||
== Potential ABC Improvements == | == Potential ABC Improvements == | ||
=== Random Cog Pedro Spot === | === Random Cog Pedro Spot === | ||
{{main|Random Cog Pedro Spot}} | |||
There is a known pedro spot that is used in the still-setting world record in between the first two cogs while they are still. This pedro spot also exists on the moving clock settings, and has potential usage on the random setting. A route with the pedro spot on random would combine most of the positives of both current world records- it would be able to go up the spinners and SDC onto the cog area while also jumping up to the higher area with the thwomp. Depending on how ideal of an angle is used, it could either allow Stomp on the Thwomp to drop to either one or two A presses.<ref>[https://youtu.be/S0q3_toE3b4 "TTC Pedro Spot on Cogs during Random Setting" by pannenkoek2012]</ref> | There is a known pedro spot that is used in the still-setting world record in between the first two cogs while they are still. This pedro spot also exists on the moving clock settings, and has potential usage on the random setting. A route with the pedro spot on random would combine most of the positives of both current world records- it would be able to go up the spinners and SDC onto the cog area while also jumping up to the higher area with the thwomp. Depending on how ideal of an angle is used, it could either allow Stomp on the Thwomp to drop to either one or two A presses.<ref>[https://youtu.be/S0q3_toE3b4 "TTC Pedro Spot on Cogs during Random Setting" by pannenkoek2012]</ref> | ||
Initially, pannenkoek did calculations for the viability of this strategy, and came up with astronomically small likelihoods of success. This was due to needing roughly 1200 consecutive frames with calls, all with a one in seven chance. The strat was essentially declared dead at this point, and ruled as infeasible.<ref>[https://youtu.be/X4k5NGUjTWs "TTC Pedro Spot on Cogs Update" by pannenkoek2012]</ref> About a year later, Iwer Sonsch brought up the point that through small angle oscillations, Mario can stay in the pedro spot with less RNG calls. These small angles gradually grow over time (since Mario's speed is growing as well) and allow largely and larger angle oscillations until the spot becomes stable. This managed to drop the total from around 1200 RNG calls to about 80 or so. The analysis also showed that there was more than just one route (completely still) to work with, which opened other opportunities to aim for to increase the likelihood of there being a configuration that works.<ref>[https://www.reddit.com/r/SM64ABC/comments/6pnkwt/ttc_pedro_spot_on_random_setting_via_oscillations/ "TTC Pedro Spot on Random Setting via Oscillations (Blueprint)" by Iwer Sonsch]</ref> Additionally since the release of pannenkoek's video, pendulum manipulation was discovered. This technique opens an incredibly large number of possible TTC states, magnitudes greater than what earlier calculations used giving the strategy even greater potential odds. | Initially, pannenkoek did calculations for the viability of this strategy, and came up with astronomically small likelihoods of success. This was due to needing roughly 1200 consecutive frames with calls, all with a one in seven chance. The strat was essentially declared dead at this point, and ruled as infeasible.<ref>[https://youtu.be/X4k5NGUjTWs "TTC Pedro Spot on Cogs Update" by pannenkoek2012]</ref> About a year later, Iwer Sonsch brought up the point that through small angle oscillations, Mario can stay in the pedro spot with less RNG calls. These small angles gradually grow over time (since Mario's speed is growing as well) and allow largely and larger angle oscillations until the spot becomes stable. This managed to drop the total from around 1200 RNG calls to about 80 or so. The analysis also showed that there was more than just one route (completely still) to work with, which opened other opportunities to aim for to increase the likelihood of there being a configuration that works.<ref>[https://www.reddit.com/r/SM64ABC/comments/6pnkwt/ttc_pedro_spot_on_random_setting_via_oscillations/ "TTC Pedro Spot on Random Setting via Oscillations (Blueprint)" by Iwer Sonsch]</ref> Additionally since the release of pannenkoek's video, pendulum manipulation was discovered. This technique opens an incredibly large number of possible TTC states, magnitudes greater than what earlier calculations used giving the strategy even greater potential odds. | ||
==References== | ==References== | ||
<references /> | <references /> | ||
{{star_nav}} | |||